Walking the Iron with John Steinmetz

This episode is sponsored by Culligan Water

In the exciting finale of The Adrenaline Zone's fifth season, hosts Sandy and Sandra are joined by John Steinmetz, a seasoned ironworker with four decades of experience. Their captivating conversation provides a deep dive into the world of ironworkers and their adventures in constructing towering skyscrapers and monumental structures. Throughout the dialogue, several vital themes emerge, shedding light on the profession's challenges, camaraderie, and the continuous evolution of safety practices.

John's journey into ironworking finds its roots in a family tradition, with both his grandfather and father blazing the trail in this daring occupation. Raised in a union-oriented household, he absorbed his father's enthralling narratives and chose to embark on a career amid steel beams and towering edifices, driven solely by his profound passion.

Steinmetz offers us an exclusive behind-the-scenes look, unveiling the intricate process of skyscraper construction. From erecting cranes to positioning steel beams, the indispensable teamwork and meticulous planning required for these colossal landmarks become apparent. Notably, he highlights the transition from rivets to bolts, symbolizing the continuous evolution of ironworking techniques.

Walking on beams hundreds of feet above the ground may appear intimidating, but for John, it's second nature. He candidly shares his initial fears and how familiarity has transformed this experience into something as routine as strolling down a sidewalk. Moreover, he emphasizes the significant impact of weather conditions, especially strong winds, which can lead to work stoppages, underscoring the need for vigilant weather monitoring.

The ironworking profession isn't solely about working at great heights; it also entails dealing with various risks, ranging from falling objects to structural mishaps. John delves into the evolution of safety protocols and measures aimed at mitigating these hazards, stressing the importance of thorough job briefings and strict adherence to regulations such as those outlined by OSHA.

Becoming an ironworker requires undergoing a rigorous four-year training program, and John sheds light on the demanding apprenticeship process. Aspiring ironworkers gain hands-on experience, gradually mastering the skills necessary for this demanding vocation.

John's journey has been punctuated by near misses and close calls. He vividly recounts a heart-stopping incident involving a crane malfunction and a truss that could have led to a life-threatening accident. His resilience and quick thinking ultimately spared him from harm.

Over the years, safety standards within the ironworking industry have seen significant enhancements. John notes that roughly two to two-and-a-half decades ago, safety measures began to undergo positive changes. Regulations from unions, OSHA, and insurance companies have played a pivotal role in elevating safety practices, ensuring that more ironworkers return home safely after their shifts.

In an era when automation poses a threat to several industries, ironworking remains a hands-on profession. The hosts and John discuss how technological advancements, such as retractable safety harnesses, have substantially improved worker safety. Ironworkers continue to remain physically engaged in their work, making it improbable for robots to replace them in the foreseeable future.

As the conversation reaches its conclusion, John unveils that he's still contemplating when to retire. This decision spotlights the unwavering dedication and passion shared by ironworkers for their craft. John's lifelong commitment to the profession speaks volumes about the legacy he will leave behind, all while acknowledging the continuous learning and adaptability necessary to excel in this dynamic field.

This final episode of the fifth season offers a tantalizing glimpse into the realm of ironworkers, a profession characterized by physical challenges, strong camaraderie, and ever-evolving safety standards. These devoted individuals play a pivotal role in erecting iconic skyscrapers and monumental structures that leave an enduring mark on the world's skyline. Their steadfast commitment and unwavering passion serve as a powerful testament to the values of hard work, dedication, and teamwork that provides a powerful model for all to follow.

If you enjoyed this episode of The Adrenaline Zone, hit the subscribe button so you never miss another thrilling conversation, and be sure to leave a review to help get the word out to fellow adrenaline junkies.

Transcript

John Steinmetz: And then, of course, as people got hurt, more rules and regulations came in, which benefited the business. More people get to go home at the end of the day than not.

Sandy Winnefeld: Many of us have seen the iconic photograph from 1932 of 11 ironworkers sitting and eating lunch on a steel beam atop a skyscraper 850 ft above the construction site for the RCA building in New York City.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Well, we've always wanted to talk to the modern version of people who do this difficult and dangerous work.

Sandy Winnefeld: They say it's not the fall that hurts, but the sudden stop or how you land.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: So our guest today is John Steinmetz, who has been in the business of assembling skyscrapers for 40 years.

Sandy Winnefeld: Many thanks to our sponsor for Season 5, Culligan Water. With Culligan's drinking water systems, you can get the ultra-filtered water you need to fuel your high-performance lifestyle right on tap. Learn more at culligan.com. 

Dr. Sandra Magnus: And we caught up with John at his home in New Jersey. 

Welcome to The Adrenaline Zone. We've always wanted to have an ironworker on to talk about someone who walks the high iron. So thanks for joining us and I'm really looking forward to talking with you.

John Steinmetz: Thank you. And I'm glad to be here.

Sandy Winnefeld: So, John, we like to start by understanding where our guests come from, where they got the fire in their belly to do what they do. So how did you grow up and get into the sort of risky business of working on steel beams high above a construction site?

John Steinmetz: My grandfather on my mother's side was an ironworker and he got my father into the business, then my father got me into the business. So I grew up in a union household my whole life.

Sandy Winnefeld: And so you got to watch your dad vicariously through your eyes. He came home every night telling stories and it seemed like a fun thing to do, working outdoors instead of sitting at a desk. So you just jumped right into it, huh?

John Steinmetz: Yes. And when I became an ironworker, I actually got to work with my father for about 10 years before he retired.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Wow, that's neat.

John Steinmetz: I'm sorry. I actually was going to go to college, but I got into this in the summer and I liked it, so I just stayed doing it.

John Steinmetz: Kept right on going.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: That's what I tell high school students, when I talk to them, it's like, find that thing you love and that’s what you should do. Those things.

John Steinmetz: And I tell everybody, for all the aches and pains and the metal I have in me, I would do it all over again.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: I can't wait to hear more. I know a lot of us start off life playing with blocks and Legos and Erector Sets and stuff when we were little. And I have to say, I kept some of that fascination because every time I see one of those huge towering cranes, whether it's on the ground or perched on top of the building, it just boggles my mind how that can be. So can you tell us a little bit about how a tall steel structure gets assembled and how that happens? And how is the team organized to do it?

John Steinmetz: Yeah, the first day we come in, we built the crane and then we start shaking out, standing the pieces right the way up, shaking everything out, getting ready to go up. I used to be a connector. I was the guy in the air who actually had the crane swing the pieces to me and me and my partner put the building together.

Sandy Winnefeld: Now, it used to be, a long time ago, that was with rivets. Right now you're bolting it together. You literally are trying to make sure everything's level, that it fits right. You've got the right part in the right place. There's more to it. You're underselling yourself a little bit here.

John Steinmetz: Years ago, it was rivets. My grandfather, actually, he tossed the rivets when he got in. And then when I got in, it was all bolts. So we would carry two bags, fill it with bolts. And then today they have boom lifts, scissor lifts, to get the guys up in the air. Back then, we had to climb. You had to climb the column, you got to walk down the iron. We weren't tied off back then because you didn't need to be tied off.

Sandy Winnefeld: Yeah. That’s because you were expendable.

John Steinmetz: Yes.

Sandy Winnefeld: So, I mean, there's got to be more to it, John. Do you have a pre-brief before you go out up on the structure in the morning that says, "Okay, we're going to try to–

John Steinmetz: When I first started, they would just tell you, “Okay, we're starting here. We're working north, we're working east.” Or however the direction we had to go they told us to go. The guy on the ground, the foreman, he would be telling us what piece was coming up next. And the raising gang consists of two men on the ground that would hook the beams up, the rig foreman, and then the two connectors up in the air.

Sandy Winnefeld: And then when you're putting the bolts in, do you have a torque wrench or something where you've got–

John Steinmetz: No, you always want to leave it loose because then when the guys went to plumb it up, it would move easily. If you tightened it up and it was out of plumb, it kind of stayed there.

Sandy Winnefeld: So it's a different team of guys that are leveling it up and then tightening it down?

John Steinmetz: Yes. The raising gang, all they did was just put the building together. Then you had a bolt-up gang that would come and put all the bolts in and a plumb-up gang. Then guys would come behind and gun it up. Back then, it was all air hoses and air guns, which weighed about 50 or 60 pounds a piece. 

Sandy Winnefeld:  And you're out on a climb.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Are those on your back?

John Steinmetz: No, somebody would be on the ground tying that on a rope and you would lift. Guys gunning up would pull that up and then move the air hose as they went along.

Sandy Winnefeld: But you're standing on one beam, connecting another beam to another beam, and you're wrestling this 50-pound, even if it's suspended by–

John Steinmetz: No, the guys who were gunning up would have the iron all there already. They would be sitting down on the beams that were already put into place.

Sandy Winnefeld: So when the beam is coming together, you're actually threading a bolt through and literally, by hand, cinching it up fingertight and then moving on to the next bolt. Wow.

John Steinmetz: Yeah. That was the connector's job. The connectors would just put two bolts in it and then cut the choker loose and move on to the next piece.

Sandy Winnefeld: And I guess it's a pretty good thing to have hard hats on those sites because if you drop a bolt–

John Steinmetz: Well, when I started, we didn't have to wear hard hats or harnesses. We didn't have to do a lot of things that we have to do now back then.

Sandy Winnefeld: That was 40 years ago, right? 

John Steinmetz: Yes, when I got in. And then, of course, as people got hurt, more rules and regulations came in, which benefited the business. More people get to go home at the end of the day than not.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: We've got a ton of questions about that coming up - about safety, training, and how regulations have changed over the years. But I'm curious about something. So, first of all, I have to confess, I don't like heights. 

Sandy Winnefeld: Even though she’s an astronaut. I guess it's kind of hard to fall out of your space station. 

Dr. Sandra Magnus: But it's a little different than standing on a skinny beam with the wind blowing around. I have to ask you, what was it like the first time you walked out on a beam way up high?

John Steinmetz: Actually, the first time I did it, I was very scared because it was my first job and I was told to go up there. It was something new to me. And then, as I did it more, I got more comfortable and it just progressed to where it's like walking on a sidewalk.

Sandy Winnefeld: But this was back in the day when you said you didn't have a tether or a restraint of some sort.

John Steinmetz: Yes.

Sandy Winnefeld: So imagine the old guys on the ground looking up at the new guy going up there and they want to see how you react. Do they know it's a big deal or are they just laughing at you?

John Steinmetz: Well, you have to tie off now. You don't walk the iron anymore because if the retractable locks up, it could move too fast and if the retractable locks up, it could pull you in a hole. 

Dr. Sandra Magnus: That’s not good.

John Steinmetz: When we say pull you in a hole, it will pull you off the iron. A lot of guys will just "coon in the iron". You put your feet on the bottom flange and shimmy along the beam like you're sitting, but you're not really sitting.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: You know, that's interesting because when we do spacewalks, we have tethers that are attached to the space station for about the same reason.

John Steinmetz: Well, if you float off there, you ain't stopping.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: It's the same thing. You have to treat them gingerly. They have these automatic functions for safety, but sometimes they can be difficult to work around.

John Steinmetz: Yeah.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Wow. That’s so interesting.

Sandy Winnefeld: That’s crazy.

John Steinmetz: It's a fun business. The people in it are like your family. Because your connecting partner, you have to rely on him. If you need him to save your life, you want him to or vice versa.

Sandy Winnefeld: So the obvious risk in this amazing business is falling. But there are a lot of other risks too. You can get hit in the head with a moving piece of steel, you name it. And I'm sure there are things I can't even think of that are risks. What is the hierarchy of risks there as you see them? How do you go about mitigating them?

John Steinmetz: Well, today, you have a job meeting where you discuss what's going to be done, how you're going to do it, safety protocols, and all that. That’s all the general contractors require for insurance reasons. So if something happens, “Did you discuss this?” 

“No.” “Why not?” It eliminates them from risks.

Sandy Winnefeld: So what kinds of risks are there? Obviously, the iron is swinging on a crane and could hit you if the crane operator makes a mistake or swings it too fast.

John Steinmetz: The ideal day is a calm, sunny day because wind, you can’t see wind. Years ago, when you were walking the iron, you couldn't see the wind coming. So if you were walking and a gust of wind came, it could make you wobble or even take you off.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Do you guys have tethers on your tools? Are they heavy enough that wind gusts aren't an issue?

John Steinmetz: Oh, no. The tools are heavy enough that wind doesn't affect them. But some jobs require tethers on the tools. But the majority of them don't.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: We have to tether our tools as well.

John Steinmetz: Yeah. They'll float away.

Sandy Winnefeld: Or get jammed in something important, like a solar panel or something.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: What about safety glasses? Do you guys have them?

John Steinmetz: Yes, safety glasses, hard hats, gloves, work boots, and sleeves at least four inches, they can’t be under four inches.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: To protect your arms. 

John Steinmetz: Yeah. No guinea tees, no tank tops, no cut-off sleeves. Everything has to be in accordance with what the rules are for that job. 

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Are they pretty consistent from job to job? The rules?

John Steinmetz: Yeah. Well, it's OSHA that determines the rules.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Of course.

John Steinmetz: So OSHA is pretty set in their rules.

Sandy Winnefeld: So as you grow into this business, we really haven't talked about this before. You've got young apprentices or people coming into the business.A nd do they know day one, they're out on the job site and they're under the wing of somebody like you, or do they have to go through a school? 

John Steinmetz: They do a four-year school.

Sandy Winnefeld: Four years?

John Steinmetz: Yeah. First year, second year, third year. And then when they become fourth year, they become a journeyman.

Sandy Winnefeld: Okay, so they're probably doing practical work during four years.

John Steinmetz: There's a steel structure in the school. They take beams down, put beams up, and they tie rods, rebar. I never did that. I never wanted to do that.

Sandy Winnefeld: Well, 40 years ago, they probably didn't even have a school.

John Steinmetz: But, yeah, I just didn't want to. My father tied rebar. He would come home filthy, hunched over, hurting. I never wanted to tie rebar.

Sandy Winnefeld: I would imagine that makes your hands really sore.

John Steinmetz: Yeah. And your back because you still have to carry it. The crane will swing the bundle over to a certain spot, and then you got to carry it to where it has to go.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: So have you been involved in close calls or mishaps? What kind of things have happened?

John Steinmetz: Years ago, I was connecting the Center State Hospital in Freehold. They were doing an addition on, and we had a conventional crane. Conventional crane looks like a lattice boom. It's not the solid boom, like it'd be hydraulic. And back then we didn't have safety hooks. You just had a hook, no safety on it. And then the boom dog broke. Now that's the device that keeps the boom from falling. Well, I was locked in a column, and it was something called the truss. And if you ever go into Walmart, Home Depot, Target, you see the piece that goes from column to column and it goes like that. That's a truss. The other things are called bar joists. Well, back then, the truss was just hooked on with chokers and no safety hook, and the boom dog broke and the boom started to fall. Then the truss hit one end of this building that was already up, and the hook came off the choker. The truss swung into the column that I was on, and my leg went into the truss on the bounce down, and God willing, before the bounce up, I got my leg out.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Oh, my gosh.

John Steinmetz: And held on because that thing was banging into the column. And then it was the first pick of a Saturday, and back then it was double time. I slid down and I said, “I'm going home.”

Dr. Sandra Magnus: It’s my caution of luck for the day. See yah.

Sandy Winnefeld: That could have snapped your leg in two, right?

John Steinmetz: It would have ripped me in half.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: I would say that you were just kind of along for the ride, hanging on, on the inside and hoping that there were no protrusions or anything.

John Steinmetz: How I held on, I have no idea.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Adrenaline.

Sandy Winnefeld: Yeah. Go home and have a beer and come back the next day, huh?

John Steinmetz: Yeah. Well, actually, the foreman said to me, he goes, “Well, will you fix the boom dog back?” And I said, “Yeah, I'll weld it because I knew I had to be up there Monday.” So I welded it, and he said to me, he goes, “Okay, it's fixed. You want to go back to work?” I said, “No. I'm going home and getting drunk.”

Sandy Winnefeld: That's amazing.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: When something like that happens, I mean, just fix it and move on. Or is there an investigation or people try to figure out what happened?

John Steinmetz: If somebody gets hurt, there's an investigation. And this was probably 35 years ago.

Sandy Winnefeld: So you were a young pup. 

Dr. Sandra Magnus: A little more.

John Steinmetz: Back then, things were totally different.

Sandy Winnefeld: Any other close calls you had or anything like that?

John Steinmetz: I fell once and broke both my hands, and that's the only close calls I've had. I've seen some fatalities. 

Dr. Sandra Magnus: That makes it hard on everybody, right? I mean, having lived through some of that myself.

John Steinmetz: Yeah. And I was on a job and an older guy, he had a heart attack right there on the job. And I'm certified CPR, but I got to him, he was blue and foaming. I brought him back to life, and then he died at the hospital.

Sandy Winnefeld: Wow. One of the things I did in my career was nuclear propulsion on an aircraft carrier. And one of our safety theories was that we always have somebody whenever there's some important thing going on that's relatively senior and experienced watching, and that person is not involved in the job, so they're just totally free to look for– Do you all have some other sort of a backup system like that where somebody's always watching, or is it just go, go on the job with the people who are there?

John Steinmetz: Well, if you go into confined space, you have somebody outside just making sure that if anything happens, they'll get you out. 

Sandy Winnefeld: So you might be in a tank or something like that? Like a big tank?

John Steinmetz: Yeah, if you're in a tank, if you're in a vault, something like that. Confined space is only one way in and one way out. That's classified as confined space. But most of the time there is somebody watching the job. That's usually me now, I'll make sure everybody's doing the right thing. Everybody's tied off. There's nobody walking under anybody while they're welding because those little sparks hurt when they hit you.

Sandy Winnefeld: Yeah. You said you had some metal in you or something like that. How did that come about?

John Steinmetz: I blew out my back. I got two rods, four screws in my back. Just had my right knee totally replaced last year. Both big toes are fused with two screws in each one.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Goodness gracious.

Sandy Winnefeld: I know football players who have had fewer injuries than that.

John Steinmetz: But I would still do it all over again if I was given the opportunity. I made a good living at it. I've always stayed busy and the union treated me very well.

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Dr. Sandra Magnus: You mentioned you were out there today, which is nuts because it's just super cold right now. For everybody who’s listening, January is not pleasant in the east. So how much does the weather– We talked about wind a little bit, but about storms are– How do you work around the weather? Do you have certain conditions that you can or cannot work in? That doesn’t help a sudden weather shift. How do you deal with those, too?

John Steinmetz: Rain, we don’t work at all. We don't work in the rain. Snow,  it depends on how bad it's coming down. If it's too windy for the crane, we don't work because it could actually buckle and go over. It hasn't been like this lately, but we normally start at 7:00, which we do start, but back then, if it was frost, we start at 8:00 because we wouldn't let anybody up on the iron if there was frost on it because you could slip and fall.

Sandy Winnefeld: But snow on a day like today?

John Steinmetz: If it's just flurrying, we can still work. But if it's coming down hard, we go home. If it's too windy, like for the guys who put the roof deck down, known as the deckers, if it’s too windy that they can’t put the sheets down, it gets blown out of their hands and it could kill somebody, so they won’t work. Today, guys were all in baskets, all of them so if they're able to work, they work. And everybody can make their own decision. They can say, "It's too windy for me, I'm going home." But their time stops there. If somebody wants to go home, we don't hold that against them. It's their choice.

Sandy Winnefeld: But there is some pressure there because they're not getting paid.

John Steinmetz: Right. They don't get paid.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: I assume different cranes have different wind ratings. So some cranes can work in higher winds and some you can't. Sandy mentioned this earlier, but I was curious. Just like any other professions, the experience of shared risks and hardships create a lot of close friendships like the people affluent in spacelike a family. Do you guys have a similar kind of vibe or similar kind of dynamic with your group? Because you said earlier that you got to count on the people around you to help save you if something goes wrong.

John Steinmetz: Yes, I've been lucky. I've only worked for two companies my whole career. I'm currently with Shamrock Construction and I've been with them for 25 years. I'm going into my 26th year. Everybody's family. We hang out together and do a bunch of things together. It's like a family. It’s good. You have your own family, and you have your works in. 

Dr. Sandra Magnus: I understand that completely.

Sandy Winnefeld: And just like your home family, my understanding is that in years past, certainly not now, drinking was allowed on the job. You could have a beer or two while you were at lunch or something like that. Is that really true?

John Steinmetz: Years ago, like when they said, "We're taking a coffee break," coffee wasn't involved.

Sandy Winnefeld: So was that a camaraderie thing, or did it kind of help steel you for going back up on a real high piece of–

John Steinmetz: I would say both. Everybody would have a beer. Back then, if you didn't drink, they looked at you funny. 

Sandy Winnefeld: So I'm not sure I want to know which buildings those were, but I guess it was probably all the buildings.

John Steinmetz: That was years ago. But today, no. It's not tolerated.

Sandy Winnefeld: I can only imagine.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: So you mentioned back then and now, when did it start to change from being able to climb without a harness or there being other rules and regulations? When did that all start?

John Steinmetz: I would say about 20 to 25 years ago it started changing. But it's better that it happened because, like I said, more people get to go home.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Yeah, absolutely. And did the unions drive it or what created impetus for the change?

John Steinmetz: The unions, OSHA, and insurance.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Oh, insurance.

Sandy Winnefeld: So, John, I remember when I was in high school, in the summertime, I worked as a carpenter. My favorite role as a carpenter was putting roofs on houses, putting up the trusses and the plywood and all that kind of stuff. I just remember how exhilarating it was to be up there. And at the end of the day, I could walk away and look back and go, "Hey, I built something there." I would imagine there's a certain sense of satisfaction that you get when you see a building go up and you've had something to do with it. Or is that just like, "Hey, it's just part of the job?"

John Steinmetz: No, it is, because the owners of the company will say, "We got 10 weeks to put this building up." And I can honestly say we always come in ahead of schedule. We do it safe, nobody gets hurt, and we always come in ahead of schedule. So sometimes when there are two cranes on a job, if the job is big enough, you'll have two raising gangs, two foremen who will kind of compete against each other.

Sandy Winnefeld: Okay, I can see that. Who gets the most steel up at the end of the day? And it makes for a good environment. But you got to be looking after the quality, too. I'll never forget, I lived in Coronado, California as a kid in 8th grade. They were building this new huge chunk of school, and one morning we woke up and the thing had collapsed on itself. And it was like, how could this possibly have happened? So quality assurance, I'm sure, is a pretty big deal in your profession.

John Steinmetz: Yes, each general contractor has an outside inspection agency, a third party who comes in behind us and checks to make sure it's the right size weld, and it's the right length, the bolts are tightened, everything is done in accordance to the specs, and everything gets done like that.

Sandy Winnefeld: So if something doesn't work, it's the designer's fault? You want it to be that way, not your fault?

John Steinmetz: Well, they usually over-design things.

Sandy Winnefeld: I can imagine.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: As engineers, we're conservative people.

John Steinmetz: When it looks good on paper, it doesn't always work in real life.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: That's the other problem. Not all engineers are hands-on.

John Steinmetz: And I've spoken to a lot of engineers and they're like, "Is there anything different we can do?" Yeah, if it looks really good on paper, it ain't going to work in the field.

Sandy Winnefeld: Well, and the other thing is, I imagine that there is a design engineering that makes it either easier or harder for you to assemble the thing. I mean, there probably is–

John Steinmetz: Some are critical connections where they're very tight. But now, today, with the software and everything, you can go on a computer and pull up a 3D model.

Sandy Winnefeld: Do you ever get into a situation where the part just doesn't fit? Maybe the manufacturer or the beam that shipped it to you is like, "Hey, this thing's three inches too short. It's not going to work. Everything has to stop."

John Steinmetz: No, it doesn't ever stop, because if the building is big enough, you can usually steal from Peter to pay Paul. I'll call the fabricator and tell him, "Okay, the beam is three inches too short. What can I use in its place?"

Sandy Winnefeld: And then send me a new one really quick for what I spark.

John Steinmetz: I'll just call him back and he'll tell me, "Okay, let’s say 3B1 was short.” He’ll call me back and tell me, “Okay. You can use 10B1 for Derek, too." So I would find that, take it. You never want the crane to stop.”

Sandy Winnefeld: Can they react?

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Opportunity to take some of your practical know-how and how buildings go up and feed it into the engineering community so they design stuff that's easier to build. Do you guys have that kind of feedback loop?

John Steinmetz: No. Some will come out and ask, but most of them don't.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: As an operator, I find it frustrating sometimes that the engineer– I have the operator side of my brain and the engineer side of my brain and the operator side of my brain is like, "Engineer people, make it simpler to manage." Having that feedback loop is really important.

John Steinmetz: Yeah.Some will come out and ask, others won't - most won't. 

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Opportunity on their part.

John Steinmetz: I'll say. Most won't ask because no matter what, the building goes up. If we have a problem, we'll let them know, and then they'll say, "Okay, can you move on?" And then they'll come up with a fix and we fix it, or they'll send out a new piece.

Sandy Winnefeld: So, John, are there any funny stories from your long career doing this, or any really embarrassing rookie mistakes that either you made or somebody else made?

John Steinmetz: Well, a couple of people. Like when the connectors, the two guys who put the pieces together, use whatever bolts are available, and then the guys bolting up come back and put the right bolts in. So a couple of people had been told to take those bolts out and put the right size in. Well, before they put in the right size, they took all the bolts out. 

Sandy Winnefeld: That's not very smart. Whoops.

John Steinmetz: And you know how gravity works.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Yeah. It's not your friend. Gravity is not your friend.

Sandy Winnefeld: Wow.

John Steinmetz: No. In our business, gravity is your worst enemy.

Sandy Winnefeld: Yeah. No kidding. So I guess what they really should have done is take one bolt at a time, right? And replace it.

John Steinmetz: Yeah. You put the right ones in first and then leave those two that didn't belong there till last.

Sandy Winnefeld: Hey, you told me to take the bolts out. Wow. 

How about any technological advances? Do you see anything coming down the road that's going to make your job easier, faster, less expensive?

John Steinmetz: The only thing that helped were the boomless and the scissorless. Other than that, it's all physical. I don't think you can get the robots like they have to move packages. I don't think you could ever get that up there.

Sandy Winnefeld: Yeah, one of those things. People say that artificial intelligence is going to take away a lot of jobs, but they're white-collar jobs, not your job.

John Steinmetz: Yeah. This has to be hands-on. This has to be the human ability to do what we have to do.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Do you foresee some technology advances that continue to address the risks and the safety piece, or do you think you're kind of there already?

John Steinmetz: I think we're there because of the retractables. When the guys are decking, putting the roof down or the floor deck, they have retractables that screw to the deck and swivel. So that's the best thing for them. And then there are certain lengths of retractables. There’s 15, there’s 20, there’s 50, there’s 60, depending on what you're doing is what length you would use. You don't want to be 30 ft in the air and use a 60 ft retractable because you'll hit the ground before it tightens up.

Sandy Winnefeld: That's kind of like having your parachute automatically open below the altitude to the mountains. That's not good.

John Steinmetz: Yes.

Sandy Winnefeld: Crazy.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: What advice would you have for somebody thinking about getting into this line of work?

John Steinmetz: It's a good living. I've made a great living at it. I've always stayed busy. You have to be geared for it. It's not a lazy man's job, that's for sure. Like years ago, we used to always say, "If the guy's not hurting, he didn't work." Because everything we pick up, like an electrician will pick up some wire, he'll pick up a conduit that's light. Everything we pick up is heavy. 

Sandy Winnefeld: And you're having to wrestle it around while it's up there. I mean, it's coming up on a crane, but you have to maneuver it into place, and that takes a certain amount of strength, coordination, and balance, too.

John Steinmetz: Most of it is the crane, but if you need an inch, you just bounce on the piece and grab. It'll come up and down. But we have wrenches, bolt bags, and the bolt bags are usually full with bolts.

Sandy Winnefeld: And they're heavy. 

John Steinmetz: They’re heavy. But now, today, everything is done with lifts, so it's a lot better for the human body.

Sandy Winnefeld: So I got to ask you two questions. One, what is the highest you've ever been walking on a beam, and what's your favorite building that you ever built?

John Steinmetz: Well, the highest I've ever been was 50 stories, but I was on the outside of the building in a bosun's chair. For people who don't know, a bosun's chair. For people who don’t know what a bosun's chair is, it’s a sitting sling on a block and tackle rope.

Sandy Winnefeld: That's crazy. But I guess if you fall from 10 stories or 50 stories, it doesn't really matter. You just get to think about it a little longer on the way down. 

John Steinmetz: Just close your eyes and wait till the ride stops.

Sandy Winnefeld: How about your favorite building?

John Steinmetz: I really don't have one. I guess it would be my first one. It was just a strip mall on Route 22 in Mountainside. 

Sandy Winnefeld: That's where you felt like, “Okay, I'm now part of this profession.

John Steinmetz: That’s where I was the scariest.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: That's the one you remember the most.

Sandy Winnefeld: You ever drive by that building and think about it?

John Steinmetz: Oh, I drive by that one a lot, but I'll probably remember my first and my last.

Sandy Winnefeld: Speaking of which, how much longer?

John Steinmetz: Undecided yet.

Sandy Winnefeld: As long as you're enjoying it.

John Steinmetz: Well, I still enjoy it. I'm just trying to figure things out. Like how to get 10 pounds in a 5-pound bag.

Sandy Winnefeld: And every building has its puzzles, right?

John Steinmetz: Yeah, every building is difficult. One job we did was St. Peter's College in Jersey City, New Jersey. They sent us all the floor beams, but they didn't send us any of the headers for the floor beams to connect to, so we couldn't do anything. And then the next load, they sent us all columns and no steel. You get some fabricators who are not the greatest to work with, but you get some who are awesome to work with. 

Sandy Winnefeld: That's always great.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Well, there's so much complexity to building a building. Thinking about the logistics tale even, let alone the stuff the you guys are doing to put the piece up and the finished product, it's amazing. I really have enjoyed listening to your story, John. I could probably talk to you for hours, but we probably need to think about wrapping it up.

Sandy Winnefeld: And with the bad weather. But John, I understand your stepson is going into the Navy soon, so that's near and dear to my heart. Congratulations to him and to you and his mom. We wish him the best.

John Steinmetz: Thank you.

Sandy Winnefeld: And again, it's been a real pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much.

John Steinmetz: One thing, when you're walking the iron, don't look up at the clouds. The clouds are moving and you can get a little wobbly because you're moving.

Sandy Winnefeld: And don't look at the ground because that might scare you. So just pay attention to what you're doing.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Just look straight ahead.

John Steinmetz: Pretty much, you just look straight ahead and you don't look down. And the hardest thing is walking on train tracks. If you're on the ground walking on train tracks, you know nothing's going to happen. But if you're 50 feet up in the air, you don't look down, you just walk like you're walking on a sidewalk.

Sandy Winnefeld: The next time I'm walking on a train track, which I do every now and then, I will think about that. I'm six inches above the ground.

John Steinmetz: Just look straight ahead.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Being on a skinny steel beam and high stories up with wind, that's just not for me. I'd rather look–

John Steinmetz: The wind is the worst thing because you can't see it coming, especially a gust or something like that. If it's a steady wind, you know what to brace for, but it's the gust that will take you off guard.

Sandy Winnefeld: Get down off the metal before that happens, I’m sure. Well, John, thank you so much. We really appreciate your time this evening. We wish you the best and a healthy and prosperous remainder of your career. Thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

John Steinmetz: Thank you. It’s my pleasure meeting the both of you.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: That was 40-year veteran ironworker John Steinmetz. I'm Sandra Magnus.

Sandy Winnefeld: And I'm Sandy Winnefeld. That wraps up Season 5 of The Adrenaline Zone, sponsored by Culligan Water. Check them out at culligan.com. And we look forward to being back with you for our next season. 

Dr. Sandra Magnus:  And be sure to check us out on social media. Our handle is very simple, @theadrenalinezone.