Tour de France Femmes

This episode is sponsored by Culligan Water

In today’s episode of The Adrenaline Zone, Marianne Martin's remarkable life and career are examined and celebrated. A trailblazing cyclist who made history by winning the Women's Tour de France in 1984, Marianne's story is a testament to resilience, adaptability, and the pursuit of passion. Hosted by Sandra Magnus and Sandy Winnefeld, this conversation uncovers Marianne's incredible journey and explores essential themes in competitive cycling, such as purposeful training, mental resilience, teamwork dynamics, and risk management. Beyond her cycling success, Marianne's transition to endurance horse racing adds a unique dimension to her inspiring narrative.

Marianne Martin's journey begins with her transition from being a college runner to a celebrated cyclist. After an injury brought her running career to an unexpected halt, she ventured into cycling and soon discovered her natural talent for climbing. Her story exemplifies the power of resilience and adaptability in the face of life's unforeseen changes.

The podcast explores the various levels of competitive cycling, ranging from class four to class one. Marianne's ascent through these ranks to join the national team is attributed to her unwavering commitment to scientific training methods, which significantly improved her efficiency and overall performance.

Marianne reflects on the community of women's cycling during her racing days where frequent encounters with familiar competitors allowed riders to gain insights into each other's strengths and weaknesses, ultimately shaping their race strategies.

Marianne's journey to the 1984 Tour de France was fraught with obstacles, including battling anemia. Her scientific approach to training, which emphasized the importance of rest and efficiency, played a pivotal role in securing her a spot on the national team just two weeks before the race. Her determination and exceptional climbing skills would prove to be invaluable.

The podcast provides valuable insights into Marianne's experience during the historic 1984 Tour de France. This marked the first year the race held official Tour de France status, and there were doubts about the women's ability to complete it. Despite the limited teamwork within her American team, Marianne's unyielding determination and exceptional climbing prowess allowed her to shine brightly and prove those doubters dead wrong.

While teamwork remains an essential aspect of competitive cycling, Marianne observes that her team lacked the coordination seen in modern cycling. In races, each rider often had to fend for themselves, creating a challenging environment to navigate. This emphasizes the importance of effective teamwork dynamics in the sport.

Competitive cycling is rife with risks, from navigating high speeds and crowded pelotons to slippery wet roads. Marianne underscores the allure of managing these risks, emphasizing that it is an integral part of the sport. Riders must maintain focus, understand their competitors, and be acutely aware of their strengths and weaknesses.

Marianne's transition from competitive cycling to endurance horse racing is a fascinating new chapter in her journey. She shares her passion for this sport, emphasizing the profound connection required with her horse and the importance of monitoring her horse's recovery during races. This transition underscores her enduring love for adrenaline-fueled challenges.

Marianne Martin's remarkable journey, from a college runner to a groundbreaking cyclist, and now an endurance horse racer, serves as an enduring testament to her unwavering determination, dedication, and relentless pursuit of passion. Her invaluable insights into training, mental fortitude, and embracing life's challenges provide valuable lessons for athletes and individuals alike, offering guidance on overcoming obstacles and reaching new heights in life. Whether on two wheels or on four legs, Marianne's story exemplifies the enduring spirit of adventure and competition.

If you enjoyed this episode of The Adrenaline Zone, hit the subscribe button so you never miss another thrilling conversation, and be sure to leave a review to help get the word out to fellow adrenaline junkies.

Transcript:

Marianne Martin: When I was on the podium, it was more to me like I had so much more skill than I thought. I got stronger as the race went on. I got stronger every day, whereas I think other people got tired. I think that's where rest really paid off for me.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Bicycle racing is full of utter exhaustion and serious risks, including mountain climbs and high-speed downhill crashes on slick roads that, at best, can result in road rash, or worse, can cause concussions and broken bones.

Sandy Winnefeld: When we think of the elite level of this sport, the Tour de France immediately comes to mind—men conducting a grueling, weeks-long ride through the mountains of France, with the winner crowned on the final day on the Champs-Élysées.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Well, that's true, but most of us are not aware that the first American to wear the Tour de France victor's yellow jersey was actually a woman in the Tour de France Femmes in 1984.

Sandy Winnefeld: That Tour began with the race in 1955, but was not held again until 1984, under the official seal of the Tour de France. And we're delighted today to talk with the woman who won it all that year, Marianne Martin.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: She'll talk to us about pro cycling as a sport, the risks and the highs associated with competing at the highest level.

Sandy Winnefeld: Many thanks to our sponsor for this episode, Culligan Water. Culligan's drinking water systems deliver the superior filtration and refreshing hydration you need to fuel your high-performance lifestyle. Learn more@culligan.com.

Dr. Sandra Magnus:And we caught up with Marianne at home in Colorado after a long camping trip on a different form—of riding her horse.

Sandy Winnefeld: Marriane Martin, welcome to the The Adrenaline Zone. It’s great to have you on the show. 

Marianne Martin: It's great to be here. I love nothing more than adrenaline. So let's talk.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Great. All right, then, let's start at the beginning. So where did you come from, and how did you get interested in competitive cycling? Because I believe you started out as a runner, right?

Marianne Martin: I did. I came from a really small town in Michigan, and I was actually a runner before running was cool. Then I ran in college until I injured myself. That's how I picked up my bike. 

Sandy Winnefeld: Wow. So you just picked it up and started cycling and immediately got into competitive cycling, or was it a natural progression?

Marianne Martin: No, I started riding and you meet the guys in the bike shop and they say, "Oh, come riding with us," and then they say, "Oh, you're so strong,” and, “Oh, you should try this race." And so then I tried the race and I actually did really well. It was an uphill race, which climbing is still my best skill. And then it just started from there. I actually joined a bike team, not really wanting to race, but the barbecues and the parties and things sounded great to me. And at first, I really didn't like it that much. I had never been in competitive anything before, and I didn't like that whole thing. But once you start doing well–

Sandy Winnefeld: It's contagious. 

Marianne Martin: –then I really got hooked.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: So you got lured into it by the social aspect and by the people at the bike store, and pretty soon you're in competitive cycling. So what does the women's competitive cycling circuit even look like? What kind of courses are there? The range of the events and so forth?

Marianne Martin: Well, back then, I think mostly Criterions, where it's around a small circuit and it's more about speed. A lot of times, the women's groups were sometimes small, so sometimes we raced with the veteran men. We'd have our own prizes, so it was a new thing back then, but I didn't have anything to compare it to. So to me, it was this big world of bike racing, and I wasn't really good at the Criterions at that point. Then when there was a road race and I did well, that's when I really started falling into it because it was just sort of feeling it out—what's this about? And seeing if I really liked it. It wasn't until I started doing really well that I really liked it.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: So I would imagine from Criterions initially to rookie road races, feeling this out to the highest level where you're competitive for the women's national team—there must be some levels in between. Or is it just like, you're good and next thing you know you're there? How does that work? Are there different degrees of the sport for you?

Marianne Martin: That's a great question. And there are different degrees of the sport. It's now classified as when you begin your class four, and then you move up to class three, and then you move up to class two. And I think class one is national team, and for women, I think we were all put together. So I started riding and met a coach. Luckily, my best friend was dating him, and he, Andy Pruitt, taught me what training was and what racing was. And so I started doing better. And then I wanted to go to the national team because I wanted to say, "Well, how good am I?" Because once I started working with Andy, I started winning even the Criterions, which I wasn't that good about. But to actually train instead of just go ride your bike, that was a game changer for me. And so I could be efficient with my time on the bike. So I made the miles matter. And that was also exciting because I could see the change in me, I could see the change in my results. It was pretty powerful because it was a big change in my results. But it was also internally. I could feel the difference. So you move up. And then when I was winning here locally, I wanted to do the national circuit. I wanted to say, "Well, I want to go higher."

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Is there a large community of women competitive cyclists? And so do you run into the same people over and again, or has it grown over the years? How has that evolved?

Marianne Martin: To be honest, I don't know locally now how big it is. When I was racing, yes, we were with the same people pretty much every race, so you got to know their strengths and weaknesses and could use that to your advantage as well.

Sandy Winnefeld: And back then, were you racing on a team or was it individual competition? With a peloton and the whole know where you're all cooperative, or is it just you're out there by yourself, digging it out?

Marianne Martin: We were on a team, but we weren't working as a team. It wasn't that sophisticated. There wasn't that much coaching for women at the time, really. And even when I got on the national know, Rebecca Twig at the time was, Eddie B was the national coach, his little favorite. So there wasn't a lot of coaching for women back then. I learned everything I learned from hanging out with the men.

Sandy Winnefeld: So we're not dating anybody here. So when you were a little girl, you raced in the 1984 Women's Tour de France or whatever. Now, tell us about how you got into that. You almost didn't make that team, right?

Marianne Martin: That's right. I was very anemic that year, and I was pretty much riding backwards, as we call it. I'd come to an overpass on a freeway and I would be off the bat. So I just had to be really diligent about my training. And that's one thing I think was to my advantage when I was racing is that I was scientific about my training. When it said to do speed work, I did speed work. When it said to rest, I rested. And I think that is one of my secret weapons, is I rested better than anybody I know, except Andy Hamston. I mean, training is breaking down your body, and then resting is when you build it up. So if you don't thoroughly rest, you don't build it up. 

That spring, I wasn't riding very well at all, but I just kept to my training program. And then in June, I felt it coming around. I drove down to the Olympic Training Center and begged for a spot on the team. And I just played it with Eddie, the coach, and I said, "Trust me, Eddie, you won't be disappointed." And I got that spot, and the angels were watching or whatever, but I was really fortunate to have that one last spot. So it was about two weeks before the race started that I actually got chosen for that team, went over.

Sandy Winnefeld:  When you're on the Tour. I was going to ask you, it sounded like you're like, the last spot on the team, but you're on the Tour. Tell us about the 1984 race. How many stages was it? A team or an individual event? Were you actually at the point back in 1984 when you were cooperatively working with a team? How was that for you as a rider?

Marianne Martin: A lot of questions there. Let's see.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Break it down. 

Marianne Martin: We were a team. I mean, we were the USA team, so we were the national team. None of us had ridden together before. We barely knew each other. And our team manager there was French and didn't speak English, and I don't think he really even knew anything about cycling. So we weren't working as a team at the race. I went into the race thinking, I just want to finish this. And the French didn't think we would finish either. So that was a big part of it. Is the whole thing for us, it was the first year. The whole thing for us was, Are we going to finish? What skill level do we need? But the thing, too, with the Tour de France, it's so crazy, it's so different, it's so enthusiastic. So much enthusiasm in France and autographs every second. And the streets were lined with people when we raced, and all that gave you so much of a boost, so much energy, just from the crowds themselves. So there wasn't a lot of teamwork, but just trying to finish the race was the big thing. 

There was one woman on our team that was supposed to win. The first day, I got third, and I was chastised for that because I don't know what so there wasn't a lot of camaraderie in our team. We were pretty much on our own.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: When you say the French weren't sure that you're going to finish the race, is it you, the women, who are running, who are doing the Tour de France, or you, the American team, that were entering the Tour de France?

Marianne Martin: The men, the organizers, the men did not think women could do that.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: So then you're standing on the podium, and as an American and a female finisher of the Tour de France, how did that feel?

Marianne Martin: Well, of course it felt great. I really never thought that we wouldn't finish just because you don't quit. You just don't quit. I mean, your body can do so much. So when I was on the podium, it was more to me like I have so much more skill than I thought. I was very proud of myself a little bit not believing, but climbing was always my forte, so it was the perfect race for me. And I'm not a one day racer. I got stronger as the race went on. As I rode into it, I got stronger every day, whereas I think other people got tired because they don't rest enough. So I think that's where rest really paid off for me.

Sandy Winnefeld: So I want to know how you celebrated the win. Or should I even ask that?

Marianne Martin: Well, no, there's photos.

Sandy Winnefeld: I mean, it had to be a big deal. I mean, holy cow.

Marianne Martin: Well, it wasn't so the women had we had a celebration, all the women's racers, and it was great. And the European women racers are fabulous. They leave all the stuff on the race course and once you're together after the race, they're real people. I don't think it's quite so true in America, but it was a really great come together at the end of the race. But then the top three women were invited to the men's celebration and their celebration was at a cabaret with the cabaret going on. And so I was seated next to Laurent Fignon.

Sandy Winnefeld:The one.

Marianne Martin: The one. And Jane Seymour, the actress who speaks a million languages, so she interpreted for us. And some of the men riders actually got up on stage and were part of this cabaret. It was just so bizarre. The whole night was very bizarre. And then we got up on stage and they had this huge bottle of champagne and it was a night in shining armor show. And so they whacked the top of the champagne bottle off and handed it to Fignon and he's drinking out of it, and then he hands it to me and I'm drinking out of it, and then I don't. But they really did whack it off. I mean, my lip was was bleeding. Everything never would have happened in the United States. And that was as much fun as the whole race. It's just that the environment, everything about it was very unusual and an adventure just in and of itself.

Sandy Winnefeld: That whole champagne slicing thing is a very European thing. When I had a Spanish ship in my carrier strike group, they taught me how to whack the top of a champagne bottle off of the sword, and it's a pretty neat trick. So let's talk about Fignon. You all shared the podium together, but there was a little bit of a disparity in earnings between you and him at the time.

Marianne Martin: There was, yes. And I'm probably not the right person to have that conversation with because my feeling is I wanted to race my bike. It would have been really great to have money because I was so broke when I quit and I won $1,000 and divided that up with my team at the end. Would I have not raced because I didn't have money? No. I mean, that was all I wanted to do. I mean, just like right now, racing my horse, nobody pays me for that and it costs a whole lot of money. That was all I wanted to do. And yes, it's a bummer that it was so expensive and that I was really far in debt when I quit racing, but I wouldn't have done anything different. 

Dr. Sandra Magnus: You're talking about the fact that maybe the American team wasn't acting as much of a team as they should be or could be. So how does a good team work together during a race if it's all working effectively? I never could figure that out.

Marianne Martin: Yeah. The Dutch riders worked really well as a team because one of their women was in second. So some of the tactics in cycling is you get the team up front, and then some of the girls go off the front. And as a pack rider, when you're behind the team, I'm going to call it team A that's blocking for their rider. When team A is up front, they're kind of controlling the speed of the pack. You want to keep it just fast enough so nobody goes around you, but not slow. So people go around you just fast enough, but also you let somebody go off the front so they would do that. And if Helena Haga, who was in second, was in that break, I had to chase it down. 

Now, if our team was working together, one of my teammates would have let me be on their wheel and gotten up there or gotten up to the pack that was ahead and slowed them down. There's a lot of different things you can do. And I think it's not a common knowledge for Joe, anybody that watches cycling, to know some of the different team tactics. So that's a good question. But the one day that was really difficult for me to stay is when they kept sending somebody off the front with Helena on their wheel. So rider A would go off the front. Helena was on her wheel. She could potentially get in a break and make up the three minutes that she was behind me. That happened all day long. So their team worked really well as a unit to help Helena Haga make up time.

Sandy Winnefeld: And that's literally breaking wind. Right? That's the whole thing.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: But that also implies that the team kind of knows who the lead rider is going into the race and who they have to sort of, I don't want to say protect, but who they have to facilitate leading, right?

Marianne Martin: Yes, it does. And in a race like the Tour de France, where there's so many days of racing, somebody might be selected to be the winner. But as it did in my case, I showed myself to be a stronger rider than Betsy. There was one other time where we were invited to the men's dinner, just a dinner, and I was sitting with Vincent Barteau, who was in the yellow jersey at the time, and he pointed to Fignon and he said, “He's going to win.” So they had it planned, whether they knew that Fignon was the strongest one on their team or what, but they knew that Fignon was going to win. That was their plan. Even though Barteau was in the yellow jersey at the time, their whole strategy was around that.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: So that's very well thought out as a team.

Marianne Martin: Very well thought out, yes. And the women weren't nearly that way.

Sandy Winnefeld: Well, I'm sure they are now, but let's talk about risk a little bit. So high speeds, crowded pelotons, varying rider skills, wet roads, steep inclines, pushy crowds, the whole thing. How do you approach all those risks and how do you manage them? Because you can't escape them, you have to manage them, right? 

Marianne Martin: And that's part of the love of the sport. You do manage, but it takes your whole focus to be thinking about the course and who the riders are around you, and if you have the advantage to know rider B, is she's really my threat? Because she's a climber too, so I need to keep an eye on where she is and a good racer is going to know where their competition is in the Peloton at any given time. And, yes, you got to know how well you can corner, so you don't wipe out on a corner and all that. And that's all part of the amazing part of the sport, because there is so much adrenaline. And, I mean, I did a running race last night, it was 4 miles. I'm not competitive, I haven't been running at all. And when you finish, you have that surge of adrenaline and completion and stuff, even when you're not winning, but then bring in winning and that's over the top in adrenaline.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Did you find, as you had more experience as a rider, that the way you managed the risk or the more margin you gave yourself or didn't give yourself changed, calculating all those risks that you had to factor in as you were riding?

Marianne Martin: I would have to say probably so, but it's not something that was conscious of me. I learned more strategy, I learned what my skills and what my weaknesses were and what my riders were. So I was able to be a better rider, not just fitness wise, but with all those other factors involved, taking in all the other risk and all the other strategies and putting them together to be a better rider.

Sandy Winnefeld: We all know that cycling is an immensely taxing sport. I mean, it's like rowing, except 20 times longer. And you mentioned training earlier, how did you manage your training for these races? I can imagine, as you mentioned earlier, you can either overtrain or you can under train and you're looking for that sweet spot. And as you were talking, something that came to mind was something the Olympics folks are using these days, and that is sort of live high, train low. Train low, so you can get the most out of your training regimen, but live high, so your lungs, sort of, on an everyday basis, get increased capacity. How do you approach that whole problem? Because as many tactics as there are involved in this thing, you got to be able to ride in the worst conditions.

Marianne Martin: That's right. That's the most important thing. When I first started riding, training for me was just going out and riding my bike. I'd just go really hard and I went uphills a lot and I'd just go really hard, and I'd just go really hard. And then I learned about training from Andy, and I learned every ride has to mean something, whether it's speed, intervals, hills. Every time you're on your bike, it's got to be a specific reason. You don't just go out and ride your bike. That's for tourists. So I learned to make every ride count and to make rest count, I would take my pulse differential every morning. And if my pulse was high and it's not just your wake up pulse because that's deceiving. You take your pulse when you're laying down and then when you stand up, and it's the differential that makes the difference. If my pulse was high, I wouldn't do anything. And I think the hardest thing about training is not training. When I quit riding and I was coaching, nobody would listen to me on that, so I just stopped. But that was a game changer for me. 

So to answer your question, I never trained specifically for the Tour de France because I didn't know I was going to get on the team until right before I left. But I was just training very smart and really listening to my body and giving it as much recovery and effort as I could.

Sandy Winnefeld: I know what you're talking about because the second time I ran a marathon, I didn't train as hard in terms of every single day got to do 15 miles. I did kind of what you're talking about. It was luck rather than skill. I would tell you that because it was mostly a scheduling problem, but I felt so much better after that marathon than I did after my first one. But I'm sorry, Sarah, you were going to ask?

Dr. Sandra Magnus: No, I was just curious. You comment the importance of rest, but I would argue nutrition is probably equally as important. I mean, you're using huge amounts of energy and there are good food and bad food, and you have to kind of get your body used to that, especially the amount of energy you're using during a race. I mean, do you have to kind of plan the nutrients you're taking in during one of those long races or how does all that work?

Marianne Martin: Well, I'm probably not the best person to ask.

Sandy Winnefeld: Hot dogs? Hamburgers?

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Never mind.

Sandy Winnefeld: French fries. Okay. I love it.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Never mind. Yeah. So that wasn't really much of a factor for you, huh? The nutrition.

Marianne Martin: Well, I don't cook. I grew up cooking, but I don't cook now, so I eat pretty simply, but I don't eat a lot of junk food, but I don't–

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Obsess over it, yeah.

Marianne Martin: I don't eat a lot of sweets, but I don't pay attention to how I eat then or now.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: When you guys were doing the Tour de France, did you have a nutrition component to that or an energy ingest piece of that, or did you just kind of eat?

Marianne Martin: No, but they got every night, and we were allowed to have some wine.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Oh, very nice. French.

Marianne Martin: Yeah. And the food wasn't great, but you know what? I didn't have to cook or clean up, so I was thrilled. We got food every night, and again, that's where I was just so excited to be there. A couple times we got to go see where the men were saying, “Oh, my gosh,” they were like, in Posh with great dinners. But we were there. We were in France. We were racing every day. They were feeding us every day. We got massages every day. We got to race our bikes every day. What could be better?

Sandy Winnefeld: You're living the dream.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: That sounds nice.

Marianne Martin: Living the dream.

Sandy Winnefeld: You live to embrace risk in the air, on the slopes, and anywhere your determination takes you. But when it comes to the drinking water that fuels your adventures, you're not looking to take chances.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: With cutting edge filtration that can target contaminants as small as a single atom,Culligan's reverse osmosis filtration systems deliver the next level of hydration. You need to keep working at peak performance, whatever the day brings.

Sandy Winnefeld: Get started by scheduling your free water test at culligan.com. 

Sandy Winnefeld: So, let's talk about the sort of personal, mental side of racing. And I'm not talking about tactics. I'm talking about you. All of us have gotten to a place, whether it's running or some other exercise, where we approached our limits. But you live that in spades compared to what Sandra and I do every day. It's like you're at a completely different level. How did you push through the mental challenges in an endurance sport when your body just said, “I'm done,” but you're telling it, “No, you've got to keep going.” How did you get across that as an elite athlete?

Marianne Martin: Well, that is a really good point and a really good question because another game-changer for me was I did visualization, and I know that helped me win as much as my training. Equal, equal. So I met these guys that work with cancer patients and do visualization for cancer patients. It's a long story how this came about, but lucky me, they made two tapes for me about visualizing strength, recovery, my attitude towards pain, all this. And I was religious about it. Every morning and every evening for 20 minutes, I would lay there, and I would do these visualization exercises. And I know that made a huge difference.

Well, two things. Your body is way more capable than we give it credit for. One day, we had a rest day, and I was in my hotel room, and I went down to sit in a little garden below. I mean, I couldn't even sit in the garden. I was exhausted. I had to go back up and lay down. But the next day, I won. Now, how does that happen? You think you can't do another thing, and then you can. And I'm sure that happens so much in our life where we just think we're done, but if push comes to shove, you've got so much more than we're capable of.

Sandy Winnefeld: And you had visualized that?

Marianne Martin: That's right. Well, okay, so you got me there. Part of my visualization was visualizing my strength, visualizing that the pain wasn't a negative thing. Pain meant my body was working and it was doing the right thing. So I started to learn that pain wasn't a bad thing. Not that that takes over everything, but that was a pretty big thing. The other thing about visualization did for me is that, I grew up in a small town, women especially, were really not taught to win, so I didn't have that experience. And I saw myself as a farm girl from Fenton, Michigan. Had I not done the visualization, I would have gone into that race thinking of myself as a farm girl from Fenton, Michigan. That was what was significant as much as the pain deal and everything else. I saw myself as a champion.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Just mental attitude shifting.

Marianne Martin: That's right, yeah.

Sandy Winnefeld: I think visualization, when I read that about you, it just immediately clicked with me because baseball players, hitters, before they go to the plate, if they in the quiet of a locker room, think about what they're going to be seeing, it just gets those mental, those synapses firing. And I know that before I went out flying at night off an aircraft carrier, if I spent a few quiet moments visualizing what a night carrier landing looked like, it just kind of warmed up the brain in a way. And I would imagine that you doing that warmed up your brain for anticipating the pain, and so you were ready for it. Probably more ready than other people were.

Marianne Martin: It did. I know it made a huge difference, and I'm surprised that more people don't do it now, and I want to teach it. And it is out there in the world for different applications, but I'm just surprised in cycling that it's not done. And I don't know about other sports, I'm just not that in touch with them. But in cycling, I don't know really anybody that does that.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Let's take a turn to the present because you're still doing some racing now, correct?

Marianne Martin: Only on my horse.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: No, only on your horse.

Marianne Martin: I did a running race..

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Well, just big picture. What do you think has changed technically over the course of your career in racing from when you started? You mean the bikes are different?

Marianne Martin: The bikes are different. I didn't ride my bike for quite a while, and then I kept riding the same bike I raced on 30 years ago. It worked then, why wouldn't it work now? And then all of a sudden, I rode one of the newer bikes and, yeah, things are a lot different now.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: What did you notice the most?

Marianne Martin: It was just a nicer ride. I'm not a technical person. I had somebody work on my bike. It just was a nicer ride. So, of course I had to get a new bike. 

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Of course.

Sandy Winnefeld: And it only cost you $2,000 or more.

Marianne Martin: I know. I was on a vacation with my sisters and we rented bikes and I'm like, "Holy shit." And I'm like, all of a sudden, it cost me $2,000 to get a new bike.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: These are nice.

Sandy Winnefeld: Let's talk about the aftermath of 1984. The Tour kind of went along, but it sort of fizzled out after 1989, and now it's back. Yours was the Tour de France féminin or something, and now it's the Tour de France femme. You had to be excited about the fact that it came back. Women's sports are surging in general, soccer, basketball, golf. But what do you think, in particular brought the Tour back for women? What was the step?

Marianne Martin: I think some sponsor finally realized, this is a really great opportunity we're stepping in, and Zwift just jumped on it. And I think they're doing a great job because it is a great opportunity. There's so much enthusiasm and coverage about the women's racing, especially last year when it was the first time, but still highlighting the skills and the beauty of women in the sport. So I think it was a really great opportunity and they found it. I don't think it was acknowledged that much of what a great opportunity for sponsorship was.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Did you follow the race this year, which apparently it was won by a German rider, Demi Volering from Team SD Works. Did you track any of that or do you follow it still?

Marianne Martin: Well, to be honest with you, I don't have a TV.

Sandy Winnefeld: You were probably camping. You're probably camping on your horse or something.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: I totally appreciate that lifestyle and agree with it. I have one, but I rarely use it.

Marianne Martin: It's really fun when I go to a hotel room and there's a TV, and I'll usually stay up till, like, 2:00 in the morning. And again, I know there's a way to do it on the computer, but I don't, and I'd love to. And I especially, for the men's race, I love hearing Phil Liggett and Bob, and I love the whole feeling of it. And I'm sure I would have loved the women, too, but I just get caught up and it's so hard to– I mean, when I have a horse now, I have so little free time between keeping myself fit and keeping my horse fit.

Sandy Winnefeld: So there is a difference, though, in the format. When you raced in the Tour de France, it was 18 legs. They were shorter than the men's legs, but you still did the climbs. This new format is only 8 legs. Tell us what you think about that. Because my sense is, if I were a betting man, I'd say, no, it should be 18 legs. What do you think?

Marianne Martin: I think it should be.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: I love it.

Marianne Martin: I think there's something that happens in that transition, too. Like, you go on a vacation for a week, you go on a vacation for three weeks, or you do something for three weeks, it's a whole different game. They don't have that luxury to put themselves in a different place that way or to test themselves that much. And I think that was wonderful for us. We really got to push ourselves and test ourselves into a whole different realm. I don't think they quite get that far. So logistically and everything, I mean, I'd rather see them have a women's race than not. And if they can't do it for that long, all right. But I hope for women that one day they get to do, because when I saw the Tour de France as an option, it was like holier than thou. I mean, it was just like the most pinnacle because it pushed you so much beyond what you thought you could do.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Yeah, well, maybe they'll grow over time into that. But along those lines, though, for the next generation of women cyclists, or for young women listening to this podcast, what kind of advice would you give them if they're interested in getting into the sport of cycling besides rest? Make sure you rest.

Marianne Martin: There's a couple of things it really helps to find other people to ride with. And I rode with men, so that pushed me. And when men don't whine and so you go out.

Sandy Winnefeld: Oh, yes, we do.

Marianne Martin: You can't whine. You can't say, I'm tired. You can to a woman, and they'll slow down. You can't. So to push yourself, to be patient when you're not liking it or having a bad day, or you've got to change a flat, which I hate, but it's such a fluid, beautiful sport. It's so easy on your body. And I think they say 28 days to a habit. So say you want to get into cycling and you don't like it. Well, yeah, you might not like it. You might not like it for a whole month. But I think so many things we do, we don't like it first, and so then we give up because we think, I don't like that. You have to get past that.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Just stick with it.

Sandy Winnefeld: That was me and surfing. I had to do surfing for three weeks before I fell in love with it. It was pretty humiliating until then. 

So you've talked about your horse. Marianne, you got to tell us what you're doing with your horse. Endurance horse racing sounds like an awful lot of fun, but tell us about that sport.

Marianne Martin: It's an awful lot of fun. We do 25, 50 miles. They're also 75 and 100, which we haven't done. It depends on the group that you're with, if you're going balls to the walls or if you're more moderate. But just to go fast on my horse and my horse loves it. I don't think every horse loves it, seriously. I mean, he just comes alive when we get to a race. He just loves it. And because of my training, I feel that I can monitor him a little bit, make sure he rests deep, start learning about the difference between horse recovery and human recovery. And they're very monitored by the vet. So there's vet checks along the way and that's one of my horse's advantage. He pulses down really fast. It's a whole another adrenaline.

Sandy Winnefeld: So to visualize this, I've got two questions. One is, is it generally on a flat course or is it mountainous? And also is the horse trotting, running, walking fast? What is this like on a 30 miles endurance horse race?

Marianne Martin: They change all the time. Sometimes they're hilly, sometimes they're more flat or rolly or stuff. In Colorado they're usually pretty steep up and down. Some people trot and walk, I trot and canner or gallup. I like to go on the fast side. I like to just go right off the front and see who comes with me, just like I used to do with cycling. The big difference is you've got to be brave. I mean, I'm not afraid on my horse and I trust him, but you've got to trust your horse that he's not going to freak out at something and throw you off. So that's part of that too. So there's definitely adrenaline in horse racing.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: So you have to find the right horse that you have a good rapport with. It sounds like for that to be.

Marianne Martin: Or you have to make the right rapport. And I think endurance racers, as all the groups of horse events, I think endurance racers are one of the top in terms of taking care of their horses and being connected with their horses. And their horse's needs most of the people, and I would say 90% of the riders work off a connection with their horse instead of a dominance. The whole cowboy thing was all about dominating your horse. We work off a connection to our horse and work together with the horse.

Sandy Winnefeld: Well, and after a 30 miles race, I don't know a lot about horses, but I do know that you've got to take care of a horse after you've been out that long. If you just say, see you later, here's some water and some hay. That doesn't work, they can get colicky, bad things can happen. So you got to spend a lot of time with this animal, right?

Marianne Martin:That's right.

Sandy Winnefeld: So I guess they say wisdom comes with age. So when you were younger, you were doing all the work going up the mountain and now you have a horse doing all work, all good. Well, Marianne, this has been really interesting. Fantastic. We've always wanted to have a bike racer and we're delighted. I'm so happy that we managed to find you and talk to you. And it's so interesting that you've continued your competitive edge in racing horses. I just hope that I get a chance to meet you sometime when I'm out in Breckenridge, have an adult beverage or something like that with some of our friends.

Marianne Martin: I hope so, too. My sister lives in Breckenridge, so that would be fun.

Sandy Winnefeld: Sounds good.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Awesome. Thank you so much.

Marianne Martin: Thank you so much. And I hope it does inspire some people, women, men, to get out on their bike and check it out.

Sandy Winnefeld: Awesome. I'm ready to go.

Marianne Martin: Okay. All right. Thanks so much.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: That was Marianne Martin, who won the Women's Tour de France in 1984. I'm Sandra Magnus.

Sandy Winnefeld: And I'm Sandy Winnefeld. Thanks again to Culligan Water for sponsoring this episode. The best water makes you feel truly good inside and out. Learn more at culligan.cpm.

Dr. Sandra Magnus: Check us out on social media, including a short video of our interview with Marianne on TikTok. Our handle is very simple, @theadrenalinezone.