Catching the Biggest Wave with Pro Surfer Jamie Mitchell
On this episode of Adrenaline Zone, “Sandy” and Sandra welcome big wave surfer, Jamie Mitchell to the podcast to talk about his late start in surfing, the risk in big-wave surfing, and climate change. He opens up the episode by recalling his childhood growing up in Coffs Harbour in Australia and how he has been a fish out of water since he could remember - reading the ocean and its currents is almost second nature to him now. Although he surfed every once in a while as a child, he was predominantly a long distance paddle boarder; it wasn’t until his mid 30’s that he really found an affinity for surfing.
Now after having much success in the industry and having traveled the world in search of the perfect swell, Mitchell is familiar with the risk associated with the sport. He’s even had to take courses on breathing underwater and how to maintain composure under extreme duress. He notes that he’s survived some of his accidents thanks to this preparation. The group go on to discuss Mitchell’s philanthropic work partnering with Surfline and creating Seven Crossings to combat and raise awareness for climate change. Drawing this episode to a close, Winnefeld and Magnus ask about how he prepares to surf. His answer? Beyond checking his equipment, he doesn’t really do anything special. After all, he knows that any attempts to create control in the face of Mother Nature are largely futile.
Resources:
Sandra Magnus - Twitter
This episode is sponsored by Dunkin’.
If you enjoyed this episode of The Adrenaline Zone, hit the subscribe button so you never miss another thrilling conversation, and be sure to leave a review to help get the word out to fellow adrenaline junkies.
Transcript:
The Adrenaline Zone - Episode 11:
Catching the Biggest Wave with Pro Surfer Jamie Mitchell
Dr. Sandra Magnus: It lies somewhere between the pit of your stomach, your racing heart, and your brain - somehow trying to keep it all together. It's an area we call The Adrenaline Zone. I'm retired astronaut Dr. Sandra Magnus.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: And I'm retired Navy fighter pilot Admiral Sandy Winnefeld. We’re two adrenaline junkies who love spending time with people who are really passionate about pushing their boundaries as far as possible.
It's hard to imagine a riskier occupation than surfing the biggest waves in the world. Getting crushed and then tumbled head over heels by tons of water or smashed against rocks, or even attacked by a shark are not everyday hazards for most of us.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Yet Australia's Jamie Mitchell, one of the small cadre of big-wave surfers faces these risks routinely. Not only is he an amazing surfer, he is arguably the best long-distance paddling competitor ever, having won that 32 mile Molokai 2 Oahu race 10 straight years.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: So welcome back to The Adrenaline Zone for season two. And congratulations to Sandra who was inducted into the Astronaut Hall of Fame while we were gone.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Thanks. But I think you one-upped me by making it onto the Russia sanctions list.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: Truly a badge of honor. So let's get going.
Many thanks to our sponsor for this episode, Dunkin', slow steeped ultra-smooth junk and cold brew should be at the top of any adrenaline seekers checklist.
We caught up with Jamie Mitchell while he was recovering from an injury suffered—you guessed it—while surfing a monster wave in Portugal.
So, Jamie, welcome to The Adrenaline Zone.
Jamie Mitchell: Thank you, guys. Thanks so much for having me. It's an honor to be on The Adrenaline Zone.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: Well look, you've made an amazing career out of both big-wave surfing and long distance paddle racing, and we're going to get into both of those things. And we've wanted to talk to someone about this amazing sport and all the risks that come along with it ever since we - at the very beginning when we conceived of doing this show - because big-wave surfing is about as pretty adrenaline generating as it gets, I would think. Pretty incredible sport.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: So how actually did you get into surfing? And it starts as a hobby, but yet there's a whole professional circuit that you get into. What's that transition look like? And how did you get started?
Jamie Mitchell: You know, I just grew up around the ocean. So I grew up in like a small little surf town in a place called Coffs Harbour, which is on the east coast of Australia in New South Wales. My dad was a surfer, and we lived super close to the beach. I was just a little beach kid. We had a creek, like a really nice beautiful creek two minutes from my house. And so between fishing and swimming in the creek and surfing and being in the what they call the Nippers Program in Australia, it's like the Junior Lifeguard program that they have in the States, I was in that at five years old.
So my path was set from a young age of being in the oceans, but as for surfing, yes, surfing was purely a hobby for me growing up. I really had no aspirations of being a professional surfer, but I had aspirations of being a professional Ironman, which is run, surf, paddle, swim, surf ski, like a triathlon on the ocean. So right up until my early 20s, I competed and trained heavily in that, hoping to make either professional series in Australia. I just did everything. I did the little athletics, I did swimming, I did football. Anything that got me out of school, I was doing that.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: How old were you when you realized that you had a little bit of talent in terms of pure surfing and started to get interested in big waves?
Jamie Mitchell: Yes. The surfing thing came later because I surfed but I was just a once a couple of months type of guy surfing, but I was always down at the ocean paddling, swimming, and catching waves on these big other surf crafts. But I did this Molokai 2 Oahu Paddleboard Race. So that's where the big transition started. So I won my first Molokai 2 Oahu Paddleboard Race in 2002. And at that stage, I had a jet ski, was starting to learn how to tow-in surfing back where I was on the Gold Coast now. I had this dream of being in the Eddie Aikau Invitational Event from a young kid as well.
So around that, 2002, I was like probably 35, my early 30s, so super late to be a professional, but I was in Hawaii paddling. I was seeing all these big waves and I started to come to the North Shore and spend three months in the winter. And my first full winter was in 2004. And that's when I was able to start to go, 'Hey, there might be an opportunity here for me with my paddling background, loving the big waves, be able to package that up to a sponsor, and try and see if I can potentially chase my dreams of doing it all, being a waterman basically, not just surfing, not just paddling, but it all together.' So early 2000s, 2004 was when I had that real pipe dream of trying to go after it.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: I didn't start surfing till I was in my mid-40s. And that's when I discovered that God invented the surfboard to keep the truly talented from ruling the earth. So you got into big-wave surfing. The power of a big wave is just simply jaw dropping, its enormous. And so dropping into a truly big wave has to feel like jumping off a 10 story building into total chaos. And as I mentioned before we started, most of our listeners aren't surfers. So tell us about big-wave surfing and the things you have to do just to get into the wave, unlike a normal break.
Jamie Mitchell: Yeah. There's two types of big-wave surfing. There's paddling. So you just have your big gun, it's like a 10-foot long surfboard, and you are by yourself, you paddle out by yourself, and you're trying to paddle into these giant waves. And then there's tow-in surfing. So you have a jet ski. You have a machine that can go 60 miles an hour. You have a tow rope that pulls you up, and it will get you into the position of the wave.
So it's much easier to tow-in surf because you don't need to position yourself and be in harm's way really. You can be way out the back set coming from a mile out, find that swell, and be like go and be cruising in the wave. Realistically, if you had the courage to do it, I could get you up on the surfboard, and you could go into a wave that was 60 feet tall. But the next thing would be is to survive it if you fell off.
Big-wave surfing, I've said it before, it's like running and jumping off a six story building, trying to hold your breath, and then having a crocodile like death roll you under the water while you're trying to get to the surface. It's like a car crash under water, you got to hold your breath while being a ragdoll, and there's a chance of drowning. And then when you come up, there may be another one, and then you got to go back under, and you might do that for another three or four times.
So it's very mentally challenging. You have to be very, very calm. You have to be well trained, and you have to have experience. I think that comes with anything that has massive risk taking and that can take your life. You don't want to just go jump in the deep end. Every wave is different. Mother Nature, that's the crazy thing about what we do is it changes consistently. You could paddle out, it could be sunny. It can be the wind is beautiful. And then all of a sudden, the wind could crank up to 20 notes and then the conditions are starting to get worse and the tide has changed. And so you're not just dealing with a race track. You're constantly evolving around the changing conditions as well as what's in front of you. A lot of variables which make it challenging but rewarding at the same time.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: I hadn't thought about it before from the from the viewpoint of being super comfortable in the water because when you fall, because it's going to happen, you're tumbling around in the water, and you have to be able to understand where the surface is. It's like doing the helicopter dunk.
Jamie Mitchell: With a paddling board, you're actually tethered to it with a leash, a leg rope. So one of the worst things that can happen is that you can—because we get sent to the bottom very fast. So if you don't have a chance to equalize, you can pop an air drum. So then you lose all sense of where up and down is. So now you can imagine you've just fallen off a 50 foot wave, you've had the wind knocked out of you, you're at the bottom of the ocean, it's black. And now you have no idea where up is. And if that leash breaks, now you're in really big trouble because what the leash does, the board will be at the surface and you can actually grab the leash and climb yourself to the top. But if that leash breaks, the only thing that will bring you to the top is the floatation that you're wearing. Worst case scenario, which is leash breaks, pop your air drum, no inflation. Now you're in a real really, really bad spot, and at that point in time, you need to go to your happy place, relax, and let Mother Nature do its work and you just chime float to the surface.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: So Jamie's talking about all the things I experienced with like eight waves. Okay, but he's talking 60 foot waves.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Yeah, no kidding. How do you train for that? Do you guys go through certain safety training to deal with those kinds of circumstances or you just learned by starting with the small waves? And then by the time you get to the big waves, it's second nature?
Jamie Mitchell: It's both. You've got to crawl before you can walk, so they say. Just working your way up from 8 feet to 10 feet to 12 feet, then there's a really great company out there called BWRAG. It's Big Wave Rescue Assessment Group, and they do courses all around the world that you can go, learn CPR, learn breathing techniques, and they go through a whole bunch of stuff. So there's some really cool training now, underwater training that you see people doing with weights, holding your breath underwater while doing exercises underwater and stuff like that. XPT Life, a guy, like, Laird Hamilton developed that.
So, there's a lot of different things like. For me, I'm constantly training. I'm always trying to be in shape because I could get called to go and surf a 60 foot wave tomorrow. A swell might pop up on the maps and might go, 'Hey, there's going to be the biggest swell of years in Tahiti.' And then we got to activate and get ready and fly halfway across the world to do that in an instant moment.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: So there's a collective network, I suppose, where people are watching the weather, they're watching the combination of waves, and at some point, you get a email alert or something that says, 'Hey, this storm is, it's looking like it's going to break here in the next day or so.' And you've got a bag packed, do you just go? Is there a network there?
Jamie Mitchell: There's like Surfline. There's a bunch of different wave forecasting companies, Surfline being the best and the biggest. And part of our job is to actually become surf forecasters ourselves, to look at the weather maps, and you can see a storm brewing seven to eight days out. So you can start to see that storm, how it's performing, how it's moving, how it's forming, and then you start to activate. You start to put things into place. And then if that storm keeps on track, that looks good. I'll start to talk to the internal guys at Surfline, who are the best in the business, and they start to give me a, 'Hey, Jamie, you should really start to get serious about this swell. It's looking really good' And then we book the flights and make sure that we've got all our gear and get ready to activate halfway around the world to go and surf these waves. So it's nearly more stressful leading up to the swell than it actually is surfing it.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: Dunkin' is made for everyone with the determination, the drive, and the guts to do something new, or who wants to push their boundaries. It's the fuel for every mission, challenging, pursuit, or adventure.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Whether you're embarking on a new journey or whether you're wrapping up your adventure, you know there'll be a Dunkin' waiting for you.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: And if it's speed you're after, order ahead, and it'll be ready when you get there. It's simple. In, out, and on your way.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: So how do you decide when a swell is too dangerous to surf? Or is that not a thing?
Jamie Mitchell: I love it. It really comes down to the conditions. I don't think any big wave surf or set is anything too big, but it can be big and stormy. If it's blowing 50 miles an hour and it's a hurricane, like, obviously, you're not going to go out. So everything has to come together. The wind has to be coming from the right direction. So basically, if the swell is there and it's the right direction for that right spot, but it really comes down to the wind. If the wind is blowing the wrong direction, that's just a no go.
Unfortunately, that happens a lot. The wind and the weather dictate how we do that and Mother Nature seems to have its own mind sometimes. I just posted on my Instagram a couple of stories ago was my first daughter had just been born in August of 2015. And you get all these people saying, "Is that going to change? Are you going to not take any more risks now because you have a family?" And I'm like, "Well, I wasn't thinking about it until you asked me this stupid question." So the way that my mind works, so I had to go and prove to myself right. I actively was looking for a storm because I didn't want to wait. This was in the middle of summer in Hawaii. No waves in summer in Hawaii. So in my mind now I'm going to be thinking about this question for the next six months until the next big swell comes, and I didn't want to be stewing on that and then go and surf a swell.
There was a swell going to Australia where I'm originally from, and I made the call to go over there, and it was a 50-50 call. The weather didn't look great. Looking back at it now, it was a really bad call. But I was gung ho on going over and seeing if I did want to still put myself at risk with a newborn. And I went over. I was the only one out there, the conditions weren't great. And I ended up getting knocked underwater, hyperextending my back, fracturing my elbow, tearing my MCL on my knee, and then my family had to come and meet me in Australia to rehab. But I realized that I still loved it. But it was a really stupid way to go and do it.
And that was a perfect example of it depends on where you are in your life. Some people are young and itching to prove themselves and are willing to take that risk, and I was one of those people obviously. But now as I get older, I definitely want to say that I'm more mature. And I definitely pick and choose which swells to go to, for a number of reasons. One, I don't want to get hurt as much. Number two, I do have family. So it affects them if I do get hurt like I just did in Nazaré and just cost time, energy, wasting money to go to a swell that is a 50-50 is just not the way I want to do things anymore.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: It's amazing that so many parallels here with other guests we've had that say as they mature in their sport, they remain equally committed to the sport. They remain still energized by the risk, but they give it just a little more margin as they get more experienced. This sounds very similar to the story that you're telling. So do you have a favorite break, Jamie? There are places all around the world. There's Peahi in Hawaii, there's Nazaré in Portugal, there's Mavericks in California. Who knows where else? But do you have a personal favorite.
Jamie Mitchell: I have to say I have an affinity with Mavericks. I hate the cold water, but I love that little town. I love everything about it. I love the wave and Jaws. The two biggest, most perfect waves are, one Jaws in Maui and Peahi. The next one is Cloudbreak, which is off the Tavarua and Namotu islands in Fiji. They're the two biggest, perfect, most beautiful waves. And then Mavericks is just intense. I'd say those three come to mind that when I get together those waves, I'm really excited.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Does this turn more or less into a circuit because the way the weather patterns move around the globe, you guys know where you're going to end up at any given time and then everybody just goes?
Jamie Mitchell: There's a bunch of people that we're on the same program, and we end up at the same place. But there are definitely times where swells come and there's going to be a bunch of places that are good. And so people will separate and some people will take their chances in going to a different place.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: So Jimmy, I used to live in Portugal and actually had a board shaped there by a local guy and would drive over to Nazaré and look at that break when it was big. You got hurt there recently. Tell us a little bit about how you injured yourself in your most recent escapades.
Jamie Mitchell: Nazaré is really hard to forecast. When you're talking about the forecast scenarios, the Atlantic changes all the time. So I booked a flight to go to Nazaré. Everything looked great, got there, and didn't surf for a week and had to fly home. That's how bad it can be. So this perfect week popped up on the forecast. One of my friends from Australia was already there. I called another friend and we said, "Hey, it looks great for a week. Why don't we go?" So we went over and it actually stayed really good for a week. We were there. We were having a good time. But when we were over there, they decided to call a tow-in contest there. So what that means is if you're not in the contest, you don't get to surf because they shut the beach down. So I put my hand up while I was there. I'm like “Hey, if there's a spot, I'd really love to get in.”
So luckily enough I got a spot. So I was in the contest. We're in the last heat of the day. Our team was in second place, and I was in second place overall. I needed to get a score and that competitive juices and that flow. And I took off on a wave with two minutes to go that I tried to pull into the barrel to get the score. And it was a judgment error, but I was just in that fight or flight type of mindset. And the wave just landed right on me, squashed me, and I end up breaking my back. I fractured my L3, got like a concussion underwater. I got hit so hard that I was seeing stars. I had to get taken to the beach on the rescue sled and they had to lift me up onto the harbor wall and then I had to get taken to the hospital in an ambulance.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: Something tells me you'll be back in the water as soon as you can, though.
Jamie Mitchell: Yeah, yeah. I'm working hard to get back. I'm finally back working out. I haven't been surfing. There's just something about the hyperextension of your back when you're laying on the surfboard that gives me a little bit of grief right now. Just sitting here right now, like when I get up, I'll feel like I've got a really old man's back. But then as long as I'm moving, when I'm swimming and running and doing all this other stuff, my back feels great. But when I stop and I'm just sitting and not moving it, that seizes up. So I guess that's the age old adage of use it or lose it, just keep moving.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: That's a real thing I discovered after living on the space station four and a half months. Use it or lose it is a thing.
So you've talked about two accidents you were in. Have you had others? Is it maybe happening 10% of the time or 80% of the time, or what do you think?
Jamie Mitchell: I had one in Mexico in Puerto Escondido. It wasn't a really big wave at all. But I jumped off in the barrel and the leash strung out and flung back and the board's tail hit me in the sternum and it fractured my sternum. And that might be the closest I've come to maybe dying. Weird story is that I had asthma growing up my whole life, funnily enough. But I learned how to breathe when I've been—you know, when anyone knows about asthma, the tube shrinks. And so if you're sucking out of a straw with air, imagine sucking out of an eighth of that. So you don't get much air.
So you learn how to breed under duress. And I could not breathe. It felt like I got hit by the heavyweight, by Mike Tyson square in the chest. I was shocked, I couldn't move my arm, I couldn't wave, I couldn't yell for help. I couldn't do anything else on my own. And I was getting recycled in this heavy beach break and getting pounded underwater coming up, just getting little sips of air. But if I didn't have the knowledge of how to understand just taking sips of air and to relax, I think I would have panicked and died. I really do. The one thing that I thought was the worst thing that ever happened to me in my life actually saved my life. It is really funny.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: Let's shift gears just a little bit. In addition to being a world renowned big-wave surfer, you're also a world renowned paddleboard racer or paddle racer. And this isn't with a nice little oar or anything like that. This is literally paddling with your arms. So tell us a little bit about that sport, what kind of equipment you use, what kind of distances you're racing, and how the whole race works, because that's a pretty unique sport.
Jamie Mitchell: So it started from that Junior Lifeguards when I was paddling all those years, and I got into my early 20s, a race formed in Hawaii, and then Hawaii and California they have had longer distance races. There's two. There's the two most prestigious races in the world. It's the Catalina Classic, which is from Catalina off of California and finishes in Manhattan Beach. And then there's the Molokai 2 Oahu, which is class of the World Championships. And it's a 32-mile race as well which starts on Molokai Island and you paddle across the Ka'iwi channel and you finish on Oahu. So it's in an island paddle. And I'd heard about this paddle, and I decided that I'd like to try and do it. So yeah. I just decided to come and have a holiday and train and do it. I did it as a team with a friend of mine the first time and just fell in love with Hawaii, the people.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: And you've won the race 10 years in a row.
Jamie Mitchell: Yeah. 2002 was one of my first time I won it and I kept coming back because I loved it. Yeah, gone on some roll. It's just one of those endurance events. I love that it's five to six hours. It's not like a swimming pool. You're dealing with currents and tides and wind when you're navigating. You have an escort boat with you. Your nutrition is so important. So it's just this really intense mental endurance race, and I thrive in those situations. I think I was born to be in those situations. I loved it. Once I started winning, I got addicted to it. And I just wanted to get to two, and then I wanted to get three, and no one had won three, and I'm like, “Okay, let's get the four”, and all of a sudden, you're at 6, 7, 8. You're like well, “Maybe I'll try and get 10.” Really it's a rite of passage for water men and water women that live in Hawaii and that live that lifestyle. It's a real special place.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: So training for that I guess is just time on board. And I've run a couple of marathons, and it's all about time on feet. This sounds very similar because it's an endurance race. You just go out, paddle for an hour, paddle for two hours, paddle for three hours.
Jamie Mitchell: I did a lot of cross training as well. I did some strength training, obviously swimming because swimming is the closest thing to paddling. The biggest part of Molokai 2 Oahu is just surfing. So you're actually catching the swells. So the trade winds blow in that direction. And so actually you could go paddle in a lake, which is like California, Catalina. It's more like the guy that's the fittest will win because it's the monotonous. It's like going around Newport Harbor or something or going in Lake Havasu or whatever it is. But over here, you're surfing. It's reading the ocean, it's reading the ocean bumps, and it's a technique, and it's a skill, and it's a talent to be able to ride these swells and oceans and navigate across and that's what I love to do. That was my bread and butter.
So yeah, doing a lot of that downwind paddling, practicing on our boards, were 18 feet long, they had a router system on the back where you would kick a tiller bar and the fin would move so you could steer. There's a lot that goes into it. A lot can go wrong. If you've done triathlons or Ironman and stuff like that, if your nutrition is not good, you're cramping or you start to cramp, your race is over and you're throwing up and people get seasick. There's sharks and there's flying fish. It's like. It's not a straightforward race. But that's what I loved about it. It was intriguing to me.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: And again, you're paddling with your arms and your hands, right? You don't have an oar or a paddle, you're actually paddling.
Jamie Mitchell: No, they added the Stand Up Paddle race to that race after the years. But no, for me, it was just basically riding a big surfboard, the big bit of foam.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: And it's interesting that it's half mental and half physical out in Hawaii. And like the ancient Islanders, you're reading tides, currents. If you don't do that, well, that's your competitive edge because most of the guys are in pretty good shape.
Jamie Mitchell: No. Definitely being able to make sure you don't go off course, go off the run line, as you say.You have a straight line from Point A to Point B that you have on a GPS, and then you have that run line, and you can deviate only so much either side of it on the high side or the low side. But if you decide to take the swells one way and just keep going and not like tack back, like sailing. If you go with the wind and continually go, you're just going to end up- you got to tack at some stage. You've got to tack back up and you've got to understand that. So, yeah, there's a real art form involved in that. And you get to be your own artist on the water. You get to draw your canvas and your masterpieces from Point A to Point B in how you get there.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: How do you feel at the six hour point?
Jamie Mitchell: Yeah, it's like a grand pianos dropping on your back. And last thing you want to do is swallow more saltwater and be in the sun. It's like you just want to be on dry land, that's for sure.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: That ability to read the ocean does not come easy. It sounds like it just takes years and years of doing it to be able to read the ocean like that.
Jamie Mitchell: It's a lifetime. And that's where the big-wave surfing for me, too, is a lot of it's reading the ocean, reading the water. And I've been doing that since I can remember, since I was five years old, and I'm now 45. So for 40 years, I've entrenched myself into the ocean, and still learning today, and it's a never-ending learning process. The saying is you never turn your back on the ocean. That is the day that you're going to get slammed and hurt, and it's disrespecting. So there's a lot that goes into being very, very comfortable in the situations that I've put myself into, that's for sure.
I'm very lucky. I never had any major run-ins, thank God. But I used to have blinders on, too, because my training would be - I have my parents drop me off 30 miles down the coast, and I'd be like a mile offshore like for five hours by myself. And I was just like, well, I would think I would see things or things in certain moments. You get a feeling. I had senses when I was being followed sometimes, but I was like what am I going to do? Like I'm a mile out the sea. I can't stop paddling, and I just was like, “I'm just doing my thing.”
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: From fighter pilots to base jumpers to neurosurgeons
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Or, you know, the rest of us, nine-to-five hustlers.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: Everyone needs a bold morning jumpstart, or a robust afternoon pick-me-up from a slow steep Dunkin' cold brew.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Whether looking straight down face of a 1,000 foot cliff or staring wide eyed into a baffling computer spreadsheet, we all need the same thing.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: So whatever your pursuit, start with a Dunkin' cold brew.
So speaking of being alone at sea, Jamie, the late Eddie Aikau was lost at sea by himself. He was on a journey by himself, and obviously a terribly famous surfer. It's the biggest historical name I know in big-wave surfing, but Eddie would go and that sort of thing. But who have been your historical role models? Or did you grow up early enough in the sport that you are the role model? How do you feel about that?
Jamie Mitchell: To big-wave surfing, Eddie Aikau is a massive inspiration and hero of mine. No doubt. He was on the Hōkūleʻa, which was a Hawaiian sailing canoe, and was heading out into the Ka'iwi Channel where we paddle, and that's where the boat capsized. And he went for help and he was never found again. So his body, we paddled through that Ka'iwi Channel, what they call the 'Channel of Bones'. There's a deep connection. He was a lifeguard. I was a lifeguard. And now I'm lucky enough to know his family personally. I've been in the Eddie Aikau Invitational Big-Wave Event, the last one that ran.
So I had a video. I got a Christmas present when I was 10 years old, and it was the Eddie Aikau video VHS tape. So, historically speaking, he's been a massive inspiration. He's a massive spiritual figure for everyone in Hawaii. But obviously, he had passed, so for me growing up, guys like Laird Hamilton, Dave Kalama, guys that started the tow-in revolution on Maui, a guy called Peter Mel, a big-wave surfer from Santa Cruz. Legend. Surfer at Mavericks and a friend of mine too. So guys like that, I looked up to and watched a lot of videos and stuff until I was able to come over and do it myself and meet these guys. And now to be friends with them is amazing.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: You compete with them, but at the same time, there's this kindred feeling among you. I love listening to your own podcast, Late Drop, and seeing how you talk with these guys is just amazing. How did you come up with the name? Tell our listeners how you got Late Drop as a name for your podcast?
Jamie Mitchell: Well, big-wave surfing is all about the drop. And a lot of the times, you are definitely dropping in late. So it made sense to call it the Late Drop. Big-wave surfing, a lot of the time, it's for the love of it. There's not a lot of money involved in it as a professional sport. We don't have many events. So a lot of people pull up to these spots just because they want to challenge themselves. But for me, creating the podcast was to try and get these men and women's names out in the public and tell their story and put a face to the name of what they're doing.
And a bigger picture, I actually started a company with a friend of mine, Zack Porter called Heavy Water Surf, and we're actually working with Surfline, creating more opportunities for big-wave surfing. So that's all about to come to fruition in the next month or so. We're going to announce a big partnership with those guys. And the podcast is just a piece of that as well. So we're really trying to elevate the stature of what big-wave surfing is. We're trying to get more sponsors involved to come in and create maybe more opportunities for a young kid that's listening to this today like I was that's listening to me. And right now, there's not really an avenue for young kids that aspire to be big-wave surfers to become a professional. It's very, very hard. And there's very little people that are making enough money to call it a real job.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: And I would imagine you've got to ease into it to do it safely.
Jamie Mitchell: Yeah. There's some really talented kids right now that are 16, 17, 18 that are surfing some of the biggest waves in the world but, again, they grew up in places that have big waves, and they're being mentored probably by some really amazing people, and they've just been in heavy surf since they've been young. Then you got people that want to just do it when they're 30. The timeline and how they've got to do it is different. So as people get themselves in trouble, some people maybe only surf big waves once in their life because they go out and scare themselves so much.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: That would be me.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: I know the feeling.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: So you've been paddling the channels between the California Channel Islands and talking about sustainability and how important that is. Can you talk a little bit about your philanthropic efforts in that area as well? I know that's another interest of yours.
Jamie Mitchell: Yeah, that was really cool. Again with my partner Zack, we were at a sustainable foods event in Huntington Beach. I'd always thought about paddling the Hawaiian Island chain. I paddled Catalina before and stuff like that. And I was like, I'd be caught up. I'd really like to paddle either the Channel Islands in California or Hawaii. And if I was going to do it, I'd love to do it for a good cause like raise some money or some awareness. So we just came up with the idea. He's like, "Hey, I know some people at the Wrigley Institute USC Wrigley Institute of Catalina. And they do all sorts of cool stuff with sustainability with food, water, energy, and waves." So from that conversation, we just decided we're going to do it, and the Seven Crossings Project, which is what it's called, was born. And a couple of years ago, I was able to get to do it, and we just put it out, I think a six, six part webisode series on my YouTube channel that shows each day that we did it. I paddled five days, I paddled over 170 miles over five days. And yeah, we just tried to raise awareness for those guys.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: Terrific. Well, we always like to ask our guests, when you're getting ready to go out and do whatever it is you do, do you have any rituals or superstitions before you jump in the water? Or is it just strap it on and go?
Jamie Mitchell: Not really, to be honest. Your equipment is everything. So it's just going over your equipment, making sure that everything is, as silly as that sounds, your fins are screwed in right, the wax is on, you've got the canisters for your inflation vests are all dialed in. So just mulling over that stuff. It's fun to go over that stuff and get in the zone. But for me, it's all about relaxing, being in the moment. I can't control Mother Nature. There's no use wasting any energy or unnecessary energy on what's it going to be like? What could it be like? How's it going to go? Because I have no control. I have control over the things that are in front of me. So you know, I've learned, again, that maturing a little more and more experience, I just let it flow, and I find that when I go out and just, it is what it is. What's going to happen is going to happen. I genuinely perform my best when I'm more relaxed.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: Yeah, that's true of life as well.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: Are you teaching your kids to surf, Jamie?
Jamie Mitchell: Yeah. They like to surf. They love skateboarding more at the moment. So they're into skateboarding. We were watching, funnily enough, a friend of mine's YouTube channel last night, and my daughter's like, "I want to get barrelled." I said, "Well, you got to start to surf a little bit more." She's like, "Well, you're taking me surfing tomorrow."
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: And then she'll get in the water and see how it goes. I love it. Well, Jamie, this has just been a fantastic discussion. It's been especially meaningful to me because I'm a not very good surfer, but I love my longboard, and anytime I get in the water and it's not too big, I love to do it. So hearing somebody who's done it so well for so long in such challenging conditions, it's a real treat. And I know our listeners are going to really enjoy hearing the aspects of what your experience is like here and literally the courage it takes to go in that hellaciously big water. So really appreciate you spending some time with us today. And we really wish you the best of luck and getting back from your injury and getting back out there on the water. We'll be looking for it.
Jamie Mitchell: Yeah, thank you. I think it's like anything in life. I think when you put your mind to something, whether it's go into space or flying a plane, you get comfortable. You don't get complacent, but you get comfortable in that space that you're in. And then I think once you're comfortable and you've got that experience, you can really excel at what that is that you put your mind to. I'm just glad that mine was the ocean. There's something about the salt water and the ocean that is just very therapeutic and even being 30 feet underwater in shark infested waters, there's something about it that's still therapeutic.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: We all have our domains that we love. You have the ocean, Sandy has the air, I have space. Those are our places.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: Yep. I think that Jamie probably took a little more risk than any of us either way. All right. Well, thanks again. And we'll keep in touch for sure.
Jamie Mitchell: Thank you, guys. I appreciate it.
Admiral Sandy Winnefeld: Our guest has been big-wave surfer and long distance paddler Jamie Mitchell. If you're interested in hearing from other big-wave surfers, check out his own show, Late Drop on YouTube. I'm Sandy Winnefeld.
Dr. Sandra Magnus: And I'm Sandra Magnus. Many thanks to our sponsor, Dunkin'. Dunkin' fuels the people who take on every challenge head first. And we know the right kind of fuel they need: an ultra-smooth Dunkin' cold brew.
Join us back in The Adrenaline Zone next week for a new episode, and be sure to follow the show wherever you get your podcasts.
